15 Responses to “City To Replace Bicycle Signs on Fernleaf Slope”
Comments
Frank
August 16th, 2011
Yeah!
Jamie
August 16th, 2011
How is it that one person is allowed to dictate what is done to protect the people of Newport Beach with NO PUBLIC INPUT on a serious safety issue? Readers who care about this issue need to call Nancy Gardener and the City Manager and bring this issue to the City Council - not some back room deal by an activist and a city engineer. This entire issue needs to be brought to public city wide discussion and Council decisions.
robincdm
August 16th, 2011
Not only is the city spending money on one special interest group without the approval of it's citizens, but just wait until someone's kid is killed on that stretch of pavement because the,“No bicycles on street, walk bicycles on sidewalk.," sign was replaced with, -it said I could ride my bike- and the parents sue the city and ask why the signs were replaced on such a steep and dangerous road for bikes in the first place. Extremely poor form Corona del Mar.
Dumb
August 16th, 2011
I think the sign is pretty clear as it is. Also what are the cost associated with this? Newport has enough budget issues without catering to the bike fools every time they turn around. First painting up Bayside and now signs?? At what cost and where does it stop? I'm writing Nancy and the rest of the council about this waste of funds.
BikingBrian
August 16th, 2011
It's not a question of pandering to special interest groups, it's a question of city's legal authority to regulate bicycling. Prohibiting bicyclists from the roadway would not be legal, as mentioned in the comments to the Bike Newport Beach link above. Thus the city has no choice but to replace the signs which shouldn't have been there in the first place.
Scott
August 16th, 2011
it will be a shame when some family member or friend will have to go the morgue to identify a victim of an accident on a dangerous hill. It is not a cycle friendly hill Mr.Peter. How thrilled will you be realizing SAFTY and COMMON SENSE could have kept the Fernleaf hill from being covered in blood? Sir, you are way off base on this issue. Do your job and keep cycles and their riders safe. Common sense should always trump any law.
Jasper Downs
August 16th, 2011
Common sense should trump any law? Blood on the hill? Are you people touched in the head?!? By all means, contact Ms Gardener and while you are at it let her know what other State and Federal laws Corona del Mar should ignore. Perhaps you can get the police to stop the "poor" from using the lovely beach here. As was pointed out in past comments they do cause so many traffic, noise and littering problems. Why let a silly "law" or Constitutional "right" stand in the way?
David Huntsman
August 17th, 2011
Safety is paramount - for all rightful users of the road. If there is a hazard, the signs do not address it appropriately and cause other problems. 1. The signs do not warn a cyclist of a hazard. They are not of the nature of a warning sign. 2. The signs would likely be innocently dismissed - if even seen - by a cyclist because any cyclist would naturally confuse them for a "NO BICYCLE RIDING ON SIDEWALK" sign (because that is virtually the only sign regulating cycling a cyclist ever expects to see, as that is the extent state law allows a local authority to regulate cycling). Keep in mind that the City of Newport Beach has banned cycling on all of its sidewalks, except where expressly permitted, under section 12.56.030 of its Municipal Code, and where it is expressly permitted there are large green signs with white lettering advising that cycling is allowed on that sidewalk. (Those signs would be helpful here.) 3. The signs give the impression - even though they are not enforceable by the Police Department - that a cyclist on Fernleaf Avenue is a lawbreaker. Keep in mind how powerful a message that is: even a Newport Beach Police Officer suggested Frank Peters was obliged to walk his bicycle on Fernleaf Avenue. That false impression gives a lot of "ammo" to motorists who think cyclists are "in their way" when they are on public roads. 4. The signs also give the impression to the public that local authorities have it in their power to regulate cycling as a means to traffic solutions, and that cycling is a dispensable option on the roads those authorities are trusted to maintain for the benefit of all. Look at the above comments - and past comments by the same people - for an idea of the pervasiveness of that mistaken impression. It runs deep. It explains cavalier attitudes toward hazards like this: http://bikenewportbeach.org/?p=269. 5. If there is a hazard, it should be dealt with appropriately. If motorists are driving so fast on Fernleaf Avenue (the speed limit is 15mph) they are running up behind cyclists, then they are not keeping a proper lookout and they are breaking the law: they may be speeding, and they are definitely following too closely. Both of those are violations of the California Vehicle Code. A speed camera would be a good idea. And if cyclists are going so fast downhill they are running past the STOP sign, ticket them too. But if the hill is so steep cyclists can't stop, get rid of the STOP sign at the bottom of Fernleaf Avenue and add two STOP signs, north and south, on Bayside Drive. Motorists drive way too fast there anyway. Let the City of Newport Beach look at the issue and find a solution that doesn't compromise anybody's safety, rights or integrity.
Fairness Doctrine
August 17th, 2011
@David Huntsman speed cameras, added stop signs, people driving too fast whaa whaa whaa why do cyclist whine so much? Half the time it's arrogant behavior the other have is flat out whining. The world doesn't have to cater to a bunch of whiners in spandex. At the end of the day do what you want on Fernleaf you will be just as dead as the guy who went flying down Spyglass and smacked a landscaping truck. Even when your right your going to lose. Oh and we don't need ammo to think cyclist are in are way on the roads, we know they are and don't care to change our minds.
Nick
August 17th, 2011
Give me a break... how expensive could a new sign be?
Ashley
August 18th, 2011
David, I've been meaning to respond since you made the comment in response to my post on a different thread of this same issue a couple of days ago. I believe the yellow 15mph sign (as pictured in the post today and another located at the bottom of the hill) is considered a "warning" sign, not a regulatory speed limit sign. There is an express difference. I am not saying that 15 mph isn't a safe, logical speed to suggest that motorists use. But as far as I know, it is not stating a law. Like all yellow road signs, they are meant to impart that there is a condition for caution on the part or those in the area, motorists, cyclists, or otherwise. Speed "Limit" signs say exactly that, "Speed Limit" on them. There is a perfect example on Seaview to the East, just after the intersection of Seaview and Fernleaf. Since you are using such an authoritative voice, you should look into it. Also, the last time I drove up the hill, after reading your comment to my post, I was careful to observe not only my driving habit at the point in question and to not change it from what is usual, but also my actual speed the whole way. Even at the 15mph that you tout, there is undoubtedly a point in that turn whereupon if you encountered a hazard stopped in the roadway, it would be too late and a collision eminent. So, to the point of the article today, the warning signs will be just that, a warning. You cyclists won't have to obey them if you don't want to and if you deem your skill level accomplished enough to navigate the roadway safely in either direction you can. I just hope that if you get hit, you won't sue the City of Newport beach for unsafe road conditions like the family of the deceased cyclist on Spyglass is presently doing. I sincerely hope this doesn't escalate to Fernleaf being closed off or becoming a one way road way -or other similar limitation as the result of a preventable bike / automobile collision. Lastly, there are a lot of comments that us drivers making comments are mean and hateful towards cyclists, which is unfair. I drive a car and I like to ride my bike too, but that doesn't mean I don't see a highly unsafe condition on this particular roadway.
Corona del Mar Today Staff
August 19th, 2011
Reply to
Ashley
August 18, 2011
David, I've been meaning to respond since you made the comment in response to my post on a different thread of this same issue a couple of days ago. I believe the yellow 15mph sign (as pictured in the post today and another located at the bottom of the hill) is considered a "warning" sign, not a regulatory speed limit sign. There is an express difference. I am not saying that 15 mph isn't a safe, logical speed to suggest that motorists use. But as far as I know, it is not stating a law. Like all yellow road signs, they are meant to impart that there is a condition for caution on the part or those in the area, motorists, cyclists, or otherwise. Speed "Limit" signs say exactly that, "Speed Limit" on them. There is a perfect example on Seaview to the East, just after the intersection of Seaview and Fernleaf. Since you are using such an authoritative voice, you should look into it. Also, the last time I drove up the hill, after reading your comment to my post, I was careful to observe not only my driving habit at the point in question and to not change it from what is usual, but also my actual speed the whole way. Even at the 15mph that you tout, there is undoubtedly a point in that turn whereupon if you encountered a hazard stopped in the roadway, it would be too late and a collision eminent. So, to the point of the article today, the warning signs will be just that, a warning. You cyclists won't have to obey them if you don't want to and if you deem your skill level accomplished enough to navigate the roadway safely in either direction you can. I just hope that if you get hit, you won't sue the City of Newport beach for unsafe road conditions like the family of the deceased cyclist on Spyglass is presently doing. I sincerely hope this doesn't escalate to Fernleaf being closed off or becoming a one way road way -or other similar limitation as the result of a preventable bike / automobile collision. Lastly, there are a lot of comments that us drivers making comments are mean and hateful towards cyclists, which is unfair. I drive a car and I like to ride my bike too, but that doesn't mean I don't see a highly unsafe condition on this particular roadway.
From David Huntsman: Ashley, the hazard will have to be dealt with appropriately. The current 'no bikes' signs are not appropriate. They are not legal, for one. And as far as mitigating the dangerous condition, it's like putting up 'No Trespassing' signs in response to a grizzly bear loose in a public park. The signs just doesn't tell the right story. You really have to understand how unlikely - counterintuitive, really - those signs are from a cyclist's point-of-view. As I said in a comment above, one doesn't conceive of a municipality issuing an unlawful order. About the speed limit, yes, yellow signs may be warning signs but they reflect the basic speed law (reduce your speed based on road conditions and variables including the presence of cyclists). And yes, even 15 mph may be too fast. I hope traffic professionals will properly engineer a solution.
Karen
August 20th, 2011
I read where the City spokesman said the sign was "unfriendly" How can a sign meant to save your life be "unfriendly"? I guess you could say that about the "skull and crossbones" on a poison bottle, but it does the trick. Fed up with idiots!
Bill
August 23rd, 2011
In California Bicycles are legal vehicles; who came up with the idea of prohibiting bicycles from this section of road? Elswhere it helps to say "BICYCLES ALLOWED ON THIS SIDE WALK" if anyone wants to ride there - as it is illegal in Newport to drive your bike on sidewalks unless posted, but I regularly drive my bicycle down that hill & would never dream of riding or dismounting to walk that side walk.
David Huntsman
August 25th, 2011
Karen, do you see that the current signs do not provide a warning (in the way that the 'skull and crossbones' on the side of a bottle of poison does)?
